Ukraine

[Ollie2UK]

Why so few?  Is it a political issue where there is public opposition to admitting eastern Europeans?  Is it related to Brexit?

Two reasons,

The first is ideological - the Tories are instinctively opposed to immigration and have been operating a "hostile environment" policy for years now, with the stated aim of making it as difficult as possible for people without leave to remain in UK, in the hope that they may "voluntarily leave". Of course, if this also has the intention of making life intolerably difficult for those who DO have leave to remain in the UK, you won't hear the Tories complaining.

The second is good old fashioned incompetence. The government is so fucking useless that it literally cannot do anything without ballsing it up now. The Home Secretary actually thought the UK had set up a visa application centre near Calais to help Ukranians reach the UK, had to be told by No.10 that we haven't, then said she thought it would be a good idea if we did. The fuckwits truly have taken over the asylum 

[Parsifal]

Thank you Ollie.

---

Ukrainian vs. Russian Leadership.

[Kev]

Why so few?  Is it a political issue where there is public opposition to admitting eastern Europeans?  Is it related to Brexit?

Two reasons,

The first is ideological - the Tories are instinctively opposed to immigration and have been operating a "hostile environment" policy for years now, with the stated aim of making it as difficult as possible for people without leave to remain in UK, in the hope that they may "voluntarily leave". Of course, if this also has the intention of making life intolerably difficult for those who DO have leave to remain in the UK, you won't hear the Tories complaining.

The second is good old fashioned incompetence. The government is so fucking useless that it literally cannot do anything without ballsing it up now. The Home Secretary actually thought the UK had set up a visa application centre near Calais to help Ukranians reach the UK, had to be told by No.10 that we haven't, then said she thought it would be a good idea if we did. The fuckwits truly have taken over the asylum 

So, it's fucked up from the top down.

[ladsnet]

Racist Island init ?

Even if the Mail and Express were saying today that we should be accepting many more refugees (I can't be arsed seeing if they are), in a weeks time they'd start with their stories of Iraqis sneaking in disguised as Ukrainians or how much benefits the Ukrainians will be getting or This Ukrainian refugee assaulted my daughter etc etc etc.

We hates foreigners.

[jumbler]

Of course, if this also has the intention of making life intolerably difficult for those who DO have leave to remain in the UK, you won't hear the Tories complaining.

I don’t agree with that. You need some system of immigration control, or the entire world (not just 500m Europeans) would be able to move here tomorrow.

People with leave to remain have a pink card, that shows they have been registered and documented. Eventually it will become indefinite leave, although as with the EUSS, spending an extended period outside the UK (more than 2 years, or 5 years for EUSS) will mean the leave gets revoked.

I don’t see what’s wrong with that. You can’t claim to be “permanently resident” in the UK if you’ve spent the last 3 or 4 years in your ancestral country, wherever that is. People who are asylum-seekers can also apply for travel documents (passports which are not passports) which allow them to travel to most countries.

About the only trouble I’ve read about is when people with limited leave have tried applying for jobs where the company has restricted posts to people with indefinite leave, or British citizens. Tough, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

[cochineal]

Yep the complete inhumanity of right wingers still makes my piss boil.

Exceptionalism with just a touch of racist undertones (I doubt very much all the world wants to climb onto this soggy outcrop of northern Europe, given reasonable choices).

No matter how many times they try to sell the bullshit, 300 refugees is not generous, it's barely even trying.

Just 300 Ukrainian refugees granted visas to come to the UK 

[ladsnet]

The reason why a large number of refugees want to come here is not, as the Farage mob will tell you, for our benefits or jobs. Its cos of the language.

Most people in the world speak English as their second language. So if you have to move to another country.. the obvious choice is one where you speak the language.

All, of course, down to our conquering the globe 150 years ago. So our fault.
We should have stayed put and grown turnips.

[Welsh Cake]

They were saying on the radio this lunchtime they most refugees want to stay in countries near Ukraine in the hope that they will be able to go back soon.

[ladsnet]

Not the refugees saying that of course.

Pritti Patel says that.

[Duncan]

Yep the complete inhumanity of right wingers still makes my piss boil.

Exceptionalism with just a touch of racist undertones (I doubt very much all the world wants to climb onto this soggy outcrop of northern Europe, given reasonable choices).

No matter how many times they try to sell the bullshit, 300 refugees is not generous, it's barely even trying.

Just 300 Ukrainian refugees granted visas to come to the UK 

The reasonable choices being? It's okay to care about refugees but don't demean the UK by calling it a soggy outcrop because they're more than welcome to try their luck somewhere else you included.

[Welsh Cake]

Pritti Patel says that.

Not what I heard

[cochineal]

Yep the complete inhumanity of right wingers still makes my piss boil.

Exceptionalism with just a touch of racist undertones (I doubt very much all the world wants to climb onto this soggy outcrop of northern Europe, given reasonable choices).

No matter how many times they try to sell the bullshit, 300 refugees is not generous, it's barely even trying.

Just 300 Ukrainian refugees granted visas to come to the UK 

The reasonable choices being? It's okay to care about refugees but don't demean the UK by calling it a soggy outcrop because they're more than welcome to try their luck somewhere else you included.

The reasonable choices was the main point. People coming here aren't doing so for shits and giggles. From those in tiny dinghies in the channel to those trying to find a working scanner in Calais.
This is a great country and I wouldn't particularly want to live in any other but certain parts of it make me feel great shame.  I just hope that should the situation be reversed, and who knows what could happen, that other countries show more kindness and compassion than we have.

[Duncan]

Yep the complete inhumanity of right wingers still makes my piss boil.

Exceptionalism with just a touch of racist undertones (I doubt very much all the world wants to climb onto this soggy outcrop of northern Europe, given reasonable choices).

No matter how many times they try to sell the bullshit, 300 refugees is not generous, it's barely even trying.

Just 300 Ukrainian refugees granted visas to come to the UK 

The reasonable choices being? It's okay to care about refugees but don't demean the UK by calling it a soggy outcrop because they're more than welcome to try their luck somewhere else you included.

The reasonable choices was the main point. People coming here aren't doing so for shits and giggles. From those in tiny dinghies in the channel to those trying to find a working scanner in Calais.
This is a great country and I wouldn't particularly want to live in any other but certain parts of it make me feel great shame.  I just hope that should the situation be reversed, and who knows what could happen, that other countries show more kindness and compassion than we have.

What kindness have you personally shown to Ukraine refugees? Have you donated to Ukraine refugees out of your own money or would you seriously entertain housing one or two of them in your house for a few months? It would be interesting to know what you're contributing in this crisis.

[Jwb52z]

After all of this has happened, since I'm an American, I'm beginning to understand why Spitting Image portrays the UK politicians and other government people the way it does. I've learned a lot.

[Duncan]

After all of this has happened, since I'm an American, I'm beginning to understand why Spitting Image portrays the UK politicians and other government people the way it does.  I've learned a lot.

The Spitting version of Joe Biden is hilarious too funny show.

[ladsnet]

The reasonable choices being? It's okay to care about refugees but don't demean the UK by calling it a soggy outcrop because they're more than welcome to try their luck somewhere else you included.

The reasonable choices was the main point. People coming here aren't doing so for shits and giggles. From those in tiny dinghies in the channel to those trying to find a working scanner in Calais.
This is a great country and I wouldn't particularly want to live in any other but certain parts of it make me feel great shame.  I just hope that should the situation be reversed, and who knows what could happen, that other countries show more kindness and compassion than we have.

What kindness have you personally shown to Ukraine refugees? Have you donated to Ukraine refugees out of your own money or would you seriously entertain housing one or two of them in your house for a few months? It would be interesting to know what you're contributing in this crisis.

I've donated. "out of my own money". Does that give me more of a permission to comment on the abysmal government response? I don't think so.


I find the defensiveness of people when its pointed out that the UK really isn't pulling its weight in this, as sad as the fact the UK really isn't pulling its weight in this.

[pinkpunk]

Yesterday I kept on hearing on the Today programme that "the government now accepts" that there are no visa officials in Calais to.assist Ukrainians who want to come to the UK.. That was so bizarre, as if the Home Office had to be told by reporters what it is doing. What it really meant is, I suspect, "OK, you caught us out. We lied."

Refugees can go to Brussels or Paris, where walk-in appointments are available from Wednesdays to Fridays.

[Duncan]

Don't think it has anything to do with defensiveness taking hundreds of thousands of refugees into a country and finding places for them is not as easy as people who have no experience of logistics think it is. That I'm having to explain that to adults is concerning. Caring about refugees is a beautiful thing but a bit of mathematics and strategic experience is good also.

[Ollie2UK]

Who said anything about hundreds of thousands?

It's this sort of scaremongering nonsense that is so hard to understand. There's a humanitarian crisis going on. Other European nations manage to respond with compassion and maturity. Why can't the UK do the same?

[Duncan]

The number is increasing or you think Putin is going to stop invading Ukraine to stop the number of refugees climbing? It's common sense to expect high numbers like that to expect the worse even of it's less. Showing no compassion and strategic planning are two different things. I'm aware that there's no government workers here but still.