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Afghanistan
#1
Well. That went well didn't it ?

20 years. Hundreds of UK dead. Thousands of US dead. Hundreds of thousands of Afghans dead.
Millions if not billions spent on training the Afghan army and police.

Withdraw.

Afghan army and police drop millions of pounds worth of weapons, tanks, helicopters. Run away.

Taliban take over in an instant.


Another US/UK war filed in the 'gigantic fuck up' box.
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#2
A school friend of mine died in Afghanistan 10 years ago. He was a Major in the army and it was all he'd ever wanted to do since we were kids. We argued a lot about him being an army boy, what with me being such a wussy left wing liberal.

Anyway one day he stepped on a landmine and that was that.

I know he thought we were doing good out there and from the look of things since, we probably were. He'd be so fucking gutted to know all that effort ended in this shit storm. Typical of West intrusions in Asia or the Middle East - we fuck everything up and leave the locals to pick up the pieces.
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#3
Prior to 9/11 the Taliban ruled Afghanistan.
Then 9/11.
Osama bin Laden said his purpose for the 9/11 attacks was to draw the US (the West?) into an intractable and costly war that would ruin the US.  He won that battle.  Job well done. Approve
We've spent several trillion dollars and lost 2,400 American lives plus thousands of allied forces lives and untold tens of thousands of Afghan lives, and then the wounded, all in the effort to fight back the Taliban and uphold a highly corrupt Afghan government and an incompetent military.
Incompetent?  It's now apparent that the US government and military grossly misjudged the strength of the Taliban for 20 years (Bush/Obama/Trump/Biden).  The Afghans (save the Taliban) weren't the only incompetent ones in this war.
Meanwhile, as Kabul fell Russia's embassy in Kabul said on Monday that Afghan President Ashraf Ghani had fled the country with four cars and a helicopter full of cash and had to leave some money behind on the tarmac as it would not all fit in, the RIA news agency reported.  And this was what we supported for 20 years?  Was that US taxpayer money he ran off with?
We were doing good things in Afghanistan?
If we hadn't pulled out now then we'd be there another 20 years at least. More lives lost.
The Taliban is back with their terror and pushing gays off of the top of buildings, but that's what Afghanistan was before GWB dragged us into that morass.
The British failed to conquer Afghanistan, the Soviets failed to conquer Afghanistan and the US has failed to conquer Afghanistan.  Will anyone ever learn this lesson?
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#4
Did these people ever watch "The Princess Bride"?

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#5
We have to stop believing this could have turned out any differently. The only thing that could have avoided this crap storm is for the US to have never withdrawn and finally actually become a real "imperialist nation builder" that the US is being called anyway.
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#6
The scenes from the Kabul airport are a reminder of the final days in Vietnam.  KK
Same story.
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#7
(17-08-2021, 03:17 AM)Parsifal Wrote: The scenes from the Kabul airport are a reminder of the final days in Vietnam.  KK
Same story.

Had the exact same impression

Fall of Saigon in 1975
[Image: d2IdqU0.jpg]

Kabul Airport 2021
[Image: 6oddXYQ.png]
minimalist sig
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#8
This is the only answer really.

I mean, we should never have gone in in the first place. As mentioned above, we learnt nothing from the previous British and Russian attempts.

But we did. And we have to just walk away.
Doesn't matter how much time, money and lives you throw at it. That's the way that country is. You'll never change it.

Bidens being berated here (by the right wing press obv) for putting some of the blame on the Afghans - but he's right. They couldn't have had better training or been given better equipment, and still they just ran away - and in the governments case - with box loads of cash.
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#9
(17-08-2021, 10:08 AM)ladsnet Wrote: I mean, we should never have gone in in the first place. As mentioned above, we learnt nothing from the previous British and Russian attempts.

But we did. And we have to just walk away.

I can't agree with that.

Once we got involved and we messed in people's lives and for 20 years asked them to support our presence, we can't just shrug our shoulders, walk out and leave them to their fate.

You can argue we shouldn't have got involved in the first place, but once we did we have a duty of care to people that we have given "hope" to and we shouldn't just abandon them.
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#10
So what do we do? Stay forever? Make it a colony state?

It's clear that, for one reason or another, they will never be able to keep the Taliban or similar tribal leaders out. They've had 20 years, the best training and billions in equipment.
They collapsed in a week.

I know its horrible and it feels awful, but I can't think of a solution.
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#11
(17-08-2021, 10:08 AM)ladsnet Wrote: I mean, we should never have gone in in the first place. As mentioned above, we learnt nothing from the previous British and Russian attempts.

I disagree (but for different reasons than Ollie).

We went in chasing Osama bin Laden at his home lair in retaliation for 9/11 (which was bin Laden's plan).  But Bush messed that up (which was bin Laden's plan).  Who knows what Bush/Cheney had in mind with Iraq yet to come, but they didn't leave it at hunting bin Laden at his hideout in the Tora Bora mountains, almost extinguishing Al Qaeda and greatly weakening the Taliban (who ruled Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001 and sheltered Al Qaeda).  Somehow all of this morphed into nation building (which Biden denies and which the Soviets failed at) and an effort to extinguish the Taliban.  All of which flopped.  So here we are (with a possible resurgence of Al Qaeda).  Full circle (minus bin Laden).

Could retaliation for 9/11 have been done more competently?  I don't know.
Do we have a responsibility to protect the people of Afghanistan from the extremes of Taliban Sharia Islamic Law?  If so then how many other countries do we need to invade?  (Why haven't we invaded Saudi Arabia? Oh, I forgot. They're an ally against Iran.)
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#12
The whole 'chasing Bin Laden' thing was just a feeble excuse for 'lets go shoot loads of Islamic people as revenge for 9/11'

Bin Laden was always going to be taken out by a targeted drone strike or special forces raid. It did not need thousands of 'grunts on the ground' But the US right wing wanted to see tanks in a hot country blasting the locals to smithereens


Add to that.. Bin Laden was actually in Pakistan most of the time.
Strange the US didn't invade nuclear power Pakistan init ?
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#13
Wonder if all scammers on social media who claim to be us soldiers in Afghanistan are now panicking that their cover stories are getting blown..
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