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Woke
#21
Whoa whoa whoa. A person's shift right is their own responsibility. She's used as a boogeyman but the right, but she and the other progressives have no power. Most centrist Dems remain centrist and go with Manchin and Sinema.

If you have concrete data that AOC causes moderates to become far right, please share. Mostly she is invoked by the right to rile up the base.
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#22
(27-10-2021, 07:51 PM)Heinrich Wrote: Whoa whoa whoa. A person's shift right is their own responsibility.

You're naive Heinrich. ( Hugs )
Everybody knows that a large segment of the voting population can be led like a herd of sheep.  (politicians know it, advertisers know it, ...)
Ever heard of the "news cycle"?  (aka "they'll forget by Election Day")

(27-10-2021, 07:51 PM)Heinrich Wrote: If you have concrete data that AOC causes moderates to become far right, please share. Mostly she is invoked by the right to rile up the base.

There you said it (and not just the base, also the "undecided").
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#23
If we only stick to what is "completely viable", there will be no change, unfortunately.
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#24
(28-10-2021, 01:06 AM)Jwb52z Wrote: If we only stick to what is "completely viable", there will be no change, unfortunately.

And if we don't then the change will be the change that is lurking on the right. Cold
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#25
(27-10-2021, 08:04 PM)Parsifal Wrote:
(27-10-2021, 07:51 PM)Heinrich Wrote: Whoa whoa whoa. A person's shift right is their own responsibility.

You're naive Heinrich. ( Hugs )
Everybody knows that a large segment of the voting population can be led like a herd of sheep.  (politicians know it, advertisers know it, ...)
Ever heard of the "news cycle"?  (aka "they'll forget by Election Day")

(27-10-2021, 07:51 PM)Heinrich Wrote: If you have concrete data that AOC causes moderates to become far right, please share. Mostly she is invoked by the right to rile up the base.

There you said it (and not just the base, also the "undecided").
I do not think there is a shred of evidence that AOC is the reason for a shift right. The right wing is a minority view with outsized power thanks to a system designed to favor them and currently a singular leader who has captured enough votes to be necessary to the party. And while we keep hearing about Trump, his influence shrinks every day. Republicans are peeling off from his narrative because they don't want to give up their own power.

While people can be led astray, there is still personal responsibility. If you're a right wing nutjob, it's because you chose to be. Those who can be seduced are those who wish to be seduced, etc.

But also, Bernie Sanders has been around for 30 years and yet you didn't name him as your looney left boogeyman. His policies are even more extreme than AOC's, and she herself has demonstrated a willingness to play ball a lot more than he has. Bernie was also THE most visible progressive, and easily the most powerful as a senator, for two presidential cycles. Why isn't he the one you name when you talk about scaring people to the right?

The truth is, while I love her, AOC has no power. If Twitter's now a reliable source, then you can see that most Democrats absolutely despise her. They don't vote for Trump; they vote for Sinema or Manchin or Pelosi.

Undecideds are indeed who vote in presidents, as we saw with Biden's win, but that also proves they're easily won back over with a moderate candidate. AOC is never, ever going to be the leader of a party, and the progressive agenda cannot win mainstream Dem support, as we're seeing right now. That's not her fault.
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#26
[Image: 4296.jpg?width=1200&height=1200&quality=...f8960269c6]
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#27
(28-10-2021, 03:59 AM)Heinrich Wrote: I do not think there is a shred of evidence that AOC is the reason for a shift right.

The far-left progressives (including AOC, the "Quad", et al) have been feeding oxygen to the far-right cause.  They need to understand something about leadership and how politics works.  It's time for them to move beyond the mindset of noisy college protesters (I was one once).

(28-10-2021, 03:59 AM)Heinrich Wrote: And while we keep hearing about Trump, his influence shrinks every day. Republicans are peeling off from his narrative because they don't want to give up their own power.

I think not.  Republicans are positioned well for winning control of both the House and the Senate in 2022 and Trump the White House in 2024.  Trump and his anti-woke narrative are part of that.  Biden is fumbling badly.

(28-10-2021, 03:59 AM)Heinrich Wrote: But also, Bernie Sanders has been around for 30 years and yet you didn't name him as your looney left boogeyman. His policies are even more extreme than AOC's, and she herself has demonstrated a willingness to play ball a lot more than he has. Bernie was also THE most visible progressive, and easily the most powerful as a senator, for two presidential cycles. Why isn't he the one you name when you talk about scaring people to the right?

AOC is the right's favorite punching bag for scaring people away from progressive "communist" policies.  Ask them why they favor her as a target over Bernie.

(28-10-2021, 03:59 AM)Heinrich Wrote: The truth is, while I love her, AOC has no power. If Twitter's now a reliable source, then you can see that most Democrats absolutely despise her. They don't vote for Trump; they vote for Sinema or Manchin or Pelosi.

And yet she and others on the far left are holding up Biden's bipartisan $1 trillion infrastructure bill until the get what they want in the social spending bill.  Republicans are loving it. It plays right into their hands.

(28-10-2021, 03:59 AM)Heinrich Wrote: Undecideds are indeed who vote in presidents, as we saw with Biden's win, but that also proves they're easily won back over with a moderate candidate. AOC is never, ever going to be the leader of a party, and the progressive agenda cannot win mainstream Dem support, as we're seeing right now. That's not her fault.

For the most part voters don't vote issues.  They vote personalities and emotions.
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#28
Is it intentional or a lack of sense of irony that the woke thread has become Why does Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez get so much hatred?

Should probably point out that centrists managed to convince progressives to get behind Biden and that without the progressives (and indeed) the centrist votes you would definitely still have Trump.

You're right about news cycles though, most of the fighting along the way will be forgotten and only the outcome really remembered and probably misremembered. Good for AOC et al for using a way to show that both centrists and progressives in the party need each other if they are to pass anything.
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#29
I still can't believe people think Trump will be able to run at all in 2024 or that the GOP won't lose badly.
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#30
************************************

This is meant to be about Wokeism in general
If it continues to have turned into ANOTHER US politics thread then I'll close it

************************************
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#31
The problem is that wokeism and America cannot be disassociated one from another. In fact, wokeism is nothing else but a recycled form of American exceptionalism with an ENORMOUS dose of Europhobia.
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#32
(05-11-2021, 07:59 PM)Ksr_BHL_747 Wrote: The problem is that wokeism and America cannot be disassociated one from another. In fact, wokeism is nothing else but a recycled form of American exceptionalism with an ENORMOUS dose of Europhobia.

I really don't understand the logic of that.
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#33
(06-11-2021, 09:31 AM)Kev Wrote:
(05-11-2021, 07:59 PM)Ksr_BHL_747 Wrote: The problem is that wokeism and America cannot be disassociated one from another. In fact, wokeism is nothing else but a recycled form of American exceptionalism with an ENORMOUS dose of Europhobia.

I really don't understand the logic of that.

Neither do I.Huh
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#34
I don't understand how you can equate "wokeness", which is really just a weird way of saying being aware and sensitive to cultural and personal attributes which used to be either ignored, vilified, or destroyed in the past by some larger or more powerful group to maintain their own preferred ways, so that we don't do that kind of thing anymore and we know better with "American Exceptionalism", which is a myth, and being afraid of or hating Europe.
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