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Woke
#1
In relation to two threads on Doctor Who and that Jodie Whittaker is leaving.

I've made a comment or two on how the show feels a bit too woke.
Not that I'm against having more representation on TV and in film.

I'm wondering on where the line is, how far can something can go to make a point and have it feel too like it's being shoved into your face, without sounding like Laurence Fox.

With Doctor Who, some of the stories that the show put out felt too in you face. This bad thing happened and you should feel very bad about it.
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#2
I fucking hate the term 'woke' when it's used to criticise something

'Woke' means being aware, understanding how what you say and the manner in which you behave can impact on others and so taking care to show respect to people rather than trampling over them. The problem with Dr Who - for example - isn't that it's 'woke', it's that it tackles issues so clumsily and at expense of things like story-line and characterisation.

And, for shits and giggles, here's the 45th President of the USA's latest take on 'woke',

[Image: h8AR3LB.jpg]

Personally I hope being 'woke' - the characteristics rather than the term itself - is here to stay.
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#3
Thank god you said it, Ollie. I saw the topic title and my head sank through my palms into the core of the earth.
[+] 1 user Likes Heinrich's post
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#4
(05-08-2021, 05:28 PM)Hugh Wrote: In relation to two threads on Doctor Who and that Jodie Whittaker is leaving.

I've made a comment or two on how the show feels a bit too woke.
Not that I'm against having more representation on TV and in film.

I'm wondering on where the line is, how far can something can go to make a point and have it feel too like it's being shoved into your face, without sounding like Laurence Fox.

With Doctor Who, some of the stories that the show put out felt too in you face. This bad thing happened and you should feel very bad about it.

I think it's more that it's preachy (very, very preachy) that you have an issue with.
I might be wrong but that's what it sounds like.

It's definitely one of the issues I have with it.

It's not inherently that having a non-white, non-male doctor makes it bad or that it attempts to tackle social issues (the green death was having a go at industrial pollution back in the early 70s as an example), it's that it does it badly. You possibly want to call it "woke" because it doesn't entertain enough but other people will want to call it "woke" simply for trying to do these things at all.
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#5
It is that, the preachyness. That's what Dr Who feels like, or has become more like.
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#6
(05-08-2021, 06:42 PM)Ollie2UK Wrote: And, for shits and giggles, here's the 45th President of the USA's latest take on 'woke',

He's also devalued the word "Patriot".  It doesn't mean anything anymore.
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#7
I think, and I know I could be wrong, that the thing people are calling "preachiness" about Dr. Who is that Dr. Who is being made for a different market than the UK now. Those "preachy" episodes are still very necessary in places like the US, unfortunately, and I think the US is now the main market that the show is written for, even with it being written and made by British people and set in the UK.
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#8
Doctor Who isn't being made for people in the US, its made for people on Tumblr and twitter aka the loonies.
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#9
Is this wokery?? I don’t know. Why should someone else dictate you’ve ‘got to’ give someone else a chance if you’re not attracted to them?? Or if they don’t fit your gender preferences??

I think some parts of society are starting to get seriously misguided. There’s a huge gap between principles (no matter how well-intentioned), and putting them into practice. The pronoun thing is an example of this, especially the made up ones.
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#10
No, it's a fake story. Look, jumbler, we know you're a TERF. Just fucking be out with it.

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/bbc-cond...ic-agenda/
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#11
I think these are valid points, and must not be ignored.

And yes, I probably would side with Germaine Greer or JK Rowling if it came to it.
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#12
(26-10-2021, 10:50 PM)jumbler Wrote: I think some parts of society are starting to get seriously misguided.

I've been saying that for years. Wink

(27-10-2021, 12:00 AM)Heinrich Wrote: No, it's a fake story.

It's not a "fake" story, just a small (unrepresentative) sample.

Sometimes I entertain the thought of having sex with a trans man (with a vagina).  I've seen photos of some very handsome trans men.  Yeah!
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#13
A story run under the pretense of some kind of epidemic when they just asked three transphobic lesbians is a fake story. The original story was a copy and paste of all the propagandistic tropes out there about how dangerous transfolk are. It's bullshit.

Times are changing and the good people will accept it. The bad people will try to repress and undermine it. As always.
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#14
From your quoted article:

Quote:Lowbridge is referring to Angela C. Wild, co-founder of Get the L Out, who took to social media to share a questionnaire for lesbians.

The results concluded that 56% of the survey’s 80 respondents had felt pressured or been coerced into accepting a trans woman as a sexual partner.

If the sampling was done correctly (a BIG "if") then 80 could be an adequate sample.
(taking to social media usually will not get you a "random" sample IMI, but it's more than three)
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#15
I just find it really sad that the first thing a lot of gay men and women do when they finally get a decent level of acceptance in society is join in with the next big 'lets pick on them now!' fad.

And no Jumbler, I don't think that article is anything to do with 'wokery' but 10 points for turning this into an anti-trans topic now Approve
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#16
I guess it just proves that some gay men and lesbians are just as prejudice and intolerant as the 'straight' society that condemned them and denied/deny their human rights.

It's akin to the homophobic propaganda that gay men are paedophiles trying to coerce and abuse male children.

Some people are just ignorant but it feels much worse coming from our own community when you consider the history and fight for acceptance and equality.

Back on topic......woke is a good state of mind but has been turned into a slur by right-wing, racist, homophobic and misogynistic media.  Doesn't help when shows like Dr Who use clumsy 'woke' preaching.
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#17
You can find members of any oppressed minority willing to join the dominant majority for access to "the club." A LOT of (especially older) gay men are militantly right wing now that the right accepts us.

Parsi: the author only talked to three women allegedly affected by the issue. The survey was a more nebulous source.
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#18
(27-10-2021, 06:36 PM)Heinrich Wrote: A LOT of (especially older) gay men are militantly right wing now that the right accepts us.

The likes of AOC will send lots of the moderate left lurching to the right.
I don't believe she thinks before she speaks.  She has valid ideas (that I agree with) but you also have to understand what is politically viable.
Rolleyes

The defund the police morons gave more oxygen to the pro-Trump right.
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#19
If you can be thrown right by one ineffective member of the House, you were looking for a reason to go that way.

Also, why did you bother bringing her up? This topic has nothing to do with her.
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#20
I said "the likes of".  It's not just one member of the House.  But she's the poster child for that mindset.  The far left progressives are at least responsible for gay men and others shifting to the right.
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