Separate or Shared Toilets ?

[Kev]

The bottom line is, it seems to go against the grain. When trans people are usually very guarded about who they are, their background, they want to be right out there when it comes to… you know what.

You do know that someone with a penis can sit down and pee.

[Parsifal]

That could be a new poll.
Do you stand or sit down when you pee?

[Heinrich]

Parsi don't even say that because I just know there's a legion of members who will insist that you have to stand when you pee to a real man.

[Parsifal]

A real man pees in the bushes rather than wait until he can reach a restroom (and doesn't care who sees it).

[Heinrich]

[Evil_Scot]

Ive been reading that sitting down to pee is meant to be healthier, as it is easier on the urethra, prostate, etc. That might be something to consider, particularly for more mature members.

[Ollie2UK]

OK, I'm sure it's probably me*, but I can't even work out what the fuck jumbler is arguing for/against any more, 

*(...it's not me)

[chabang]

and no matter how wrong that may be, allowing them to use preferred gender facilities isn't going to make the problem go away.

ah yes because if there's one thing that's been proven time and time again throughout history it's that hiding people away, segregating them, making them use the "specially for them" facilities instead of addressing the underlying problems and making sure that PEOPLE are treated as equals ALWAYS turns out to have been the right choice of action right?

Jumbler - you clearly have a huge bee in your bonnet about this and the hypocrisy is staggering. Take any one of your statements (where you claim that trans people think as one, all have "difficulty" physically using a normal toilet and all think/believe exactly what you think they do) and replace "trans" with "black" or "gay" and tell me honestly you don't see a problem with the sweeping generalisations you keep making.

For example, if young gay people still finding holding hands in public a biggie, surely trans people don’t want to put themselves in a position where they can be attacked??

Who are these "young people" who are afraid to hold hands in public you speak of? Sure 25 years ago it would have got you some agro but for a good ten years now i've seen same sex couples openly holding hands in public (in all the small provincial towns i frequent - not London), It's been completely normal for same sex relationships in high schools, some of the highest paid TV, entertainment and Music personalities are openly gay. You would struggle (outside the usual ratio of thugs who hate anyone that isn't them) to find anyone under the age of 30 who has any real objection to "gay" in other people.
And NEVER claim you know or can speak for trans people's thought when you use the phrase "trans people don't want to put themselves in a position where they can be attacked" - the stonewall riots were literally lead by transgendered people.

Before you complain that no-one wants to see eye to eye why not go take a look at your own postings, go check just how completely wrong most of your claims are and come back to the discussion to debate based on the honest position that you don't like thinking about transgender issues purely because it makes you feel a bit icky and not cloaking yourself in this faux saviour nonsense that you somehow really know and understand the problem and are just doing it to be nice and helpful to them; but could they all just go and hide away so you don't actually have to feel icky any more....

[ladsnet]

Sorry if I'm skim reading... I can't keep up.

Are we saying now that trans people will be beaten up if they go into the "wrong toilet" ? Who by exactly? Roving bands of toilet vigilantes.

And we're not talking about the old style public loos in the street here. This is about toilets in public buildings.
So a trans person going into the "wrong toilet" in a hospital .. will get beaten up??

[Jwb52z]

It might not be very likely in the UK, but a lot of the horrible things might very well be likely to happen to an American trans person, unfortunately. There are Americans who feel like it's their job to see that trans people don't do things they don't approve of now, just like they feel that way about the rest of the LGBTQ+ people in general. If you're discovered, you very well might be beaten in the restroom in a public building if you're unlucky to encounter the wrong person or group of men and women.

[cochineal]

I don't think you need to be physically assaulted to be ostracized from somewhere.
There's not roaming gangs of toilet vigilantes now and yet there are people you can turn to if you find someone in a bathroom space who shouldn't be there.
Sometimes this is very clear cut and as binary as binary can be but we live in an increasingly non-binary world. Unfortunately you can't just wake up fully transitioned, so as they progress they are by definition neither socially accepted as male or female. We've all heard the bloke in a dress or chick with a dick lines so which toilet space would they have to use? The right wing press scare stories write themselves and the fact that there are predatory characters who are attempting to use non binary identities to gain access to victims has a massive effect on non-binary and trans people.

I'm not trans or non-binary. I would say I'm 100% cis and 100% gay. I am glad that I had allies in the past though standing up if anyone said that all gays were pedophilic and unnatural and would destroy society and should be sent to prison and should be made to do hard labour to straighten out and can be converted and cured of their mental illness (last one still on going).

In terms of the government actually trying to legislate against unisex toilets it's unnecessary and will only lead to more culture waring and non-binary and trans people having to justify their lives. Maybe if they say unisex toilets can exist but there must also be single sex facilities as well. I don't know if the regulations will permit that but it would seem like a decent way forward. If it doesn't then it's shit.

[Welsh Cake]

. I would say I'm 100% cis and 100% gay.

What’s cis?

[cochineal]

What’s cis?

My gender is the same as my birth sex.

[Parsifal]

What’s cis?

My gender is the same as my birth sex.

Short for cisgender (as opposed to transgender).

[westham1980]

My word - there's no way I want gender neutral toilets in a theatre. I barely get time to order and finish my interval drink without also being held in a queue for the toilet. It's one of the advantages of being male!

[Parsifal]

To be fair to women (who complain about long lines) their restrooms should be larger with more stalls.  But yes, urinals are efficient; more of them, they take up less space, and you're in and out faster.
(And for the guys who get pee shy, it's happened to me too, there are stalls.  But even then, guys can be fast.)

With unisex toilets women always complain that men don't put the seat down when they're finished.  Separate toilets and the problem is solved.

[westham1980]

They have it right in Scandinavia where there are separate cubicles in the mens as my ex partner never went to a urinal or one of those hideous metal troughs.

[Parsifal]

On the subject of "those hideous metal troughs" there was a gay bar in San Francisco on Castro that had a trough in the restroom that had a large mirror set on top of it.  Not only were you watching yourself pee from the front, but also all of the other guys standing at the trough and peeing at the same time.  

A funny coda to that story is that while I was standing there peeing I recognized the cock next to me (it was large) as belonging to a guy with whom I had sex with on a previous trip to SFO.  "Gary?  Is that you?"  It's a true story.

[Jwb52z]

I know they're expensive, but there's a solution to the "putting the seat down problem" that should be feasible in the not too distant future if cost is the only objection. There are toilets that are automatically lowering the seat for you as a part of their function. I think America should just switch to electronic bidets, personally, but no one asked me. I mean, Americans freak out if the water level in a toilet is lower than expected. You'd think they would want something like that even if it's expensive.

[Kev]

If women want men to leave the seat down after men use it, then they should leave it up after they use it. If not, then don't bitch about the piss on the seat.

Christ! I'm starting to sound like Parsi.