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Football - European Super League
#1
So footyfans... what do we think ?  Bit of a hoo-har init?


I'm not really into football at all except for the perving and a bit of world cup so I'm not that arsed but its amusing seeing everyone get so wound up.


Lets face it. Whatever people say.. it will happen.
FIFA and UEFA won't ban the players from World/Euro cups because their advertisers and sponsors want the best players on screen. It's all about the money.

Fans will moan and kick-off and say its the end of the 'beautiful game' but then in 12 months time they'll be paying to go to the matches and forking out £20 a month for Sky Sports Euro Super League channel... so they just feed the problem.
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#2
I would agree with your points ^

But... all is not lost as Boris comes to the rescue  Huh

Quote:UK prime minister Boris Johnson says the government will "look at everything we can do" to ensure the European Super League will not go ahead, as it is currently being proposed.
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#3
Well I can sort that one for him.

He can't do anything at all about it.


Sorted.
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#4
Oh yeah, he offered to invite Euro teams and fans to play their games over here if they can’t in their home country. Huh

But he cancels his India trip because it’s “too dangerous”. Rolleyes
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#5
I hate to say it, but I think Ladsnet is right. The fans are up in arms now, but money talks and at the end of the day the fans will end up paying out to see their clubs and heroes play, wherever that may be.

As for Johnson's hot air waffle, that is all it is. Just something he can focus on to distract us from the sleaze and corruption that is starting to emerge within his own party.
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#6
I wouldn’t trust or believe anything Johnson says.
Whether anyone else can stop this is another matter.
Its always been about monetising their assets to the max for the big club owners.
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#7
To be honest, it’s absolute bull crap (this idea about a SuperLeague being unfair, or unequal). It really is.

How can a second or third division side challenge a Premier team to enter the Champions League?? They can’t, they have to be in the same flight.

Just because there’s a little “potential” for the third division club to rise up the promotion ladder over many years, it could (and often does) wipe outs a club’s finances to do so.

If you were going to make it “fairer”, “equal” (socialist, whatever), you would tax the profits of the most successful Premier League clubs until they weren’t any richer than a first or second division side.

Of course, that’ll never happen. Even if it would benefit real talent, and probably the NHS too. So don’t talk about fairness, and equality and dreams - because that’s all football is.

Just a load of wank dreams.

Besides, they probably need a SuperLeague to shake things up a bit. The Champions League has been around more than 60 years now, and hasn’t changed a huge amount until the last 20 years or so.

In the 70s, you had World Series Cricket - a rival league, with private money (just like this one) - but which was determined to shake up the game and get fans interested again.

You need something to come along so that the leagues and governing bodies don’t get too complacent, and have to up their game as well.
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#8
Nah.. the point is that a team that has made it into the Premier League but doesn't have the mega bucks - Leeds, Burnley, Leicester.. would be excluded from the top flight of European competition.
Which is exactly the reason the big 12 are setting it up.
They think they should ALWAYS be in the big european competition because they are the biggest clubs. The prospect of not making the Champions League but a team like Burnley getting there horrifies them.
Greedy cunts.

But like I said... all the fans on the news today burning their shirts and season tickets will be first in line signing up to Amazon Prime Sky BT Euro Super League TV channel come August. Guaranteed.
[+] 1 user Likes ladsnet's post
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#9
(19-04-2021, 11:04 PM)ladsnet Wrote: Nah.. the point is that a team that has made it into the Premier League but doesn't have the mega bucks - Leeds, Burnley, Leicester.. would be excluded from the top flight of European competition.
Which is exactly the reason the big 12 are setting it up.
They think they should ALWAYS be in the big european competition because they are the biggest clubs. The prospect of not making the Champions League but a team like Burnley getting there horrifies them.
Greedy cunts.
Well, there’s two ways of looking at that really. There is that side of it, and there’s also what do we mean by the top flight of European competition?? Yes, the SuperLeague sounds a but one-sided, we don’t even know what the rules are yet. If you’re not a founding member, how do you join; can you be invited, or qualify?? And so on.

But you know, things evolve over time. UEFA and the Champions League may have had its day. It just feels like a never-ending competition (to a disinterested party), fucking boring in fact. Rather than spinning it out for 8 or 9 months, you could do with some quicker-fire knockout stages.
Quote: But like I said... all the fans on the news today burning their shirts and season tickets will be first in line signing up to Amazon Prime Sky BT Euro Super League TV channel come August. Guaranteed.
Well this is exactly the problem, they’ll just eat their words and sign up anyway. And the pubs will - the ones that can still afford to open, anyway.

I can recall conversations along these lines way back when the Premiership started 30 years ago. Exactly the same thing. And the same things happened. Particularly with sky.

If fans weren’t so fickle, they had a chance to fuck sky (and the teams) over. But their addiction to the game was too strong...

This is what Barry Fry had to say earlier...
Quote: “I wouldn’t think there’s a supporter of any of the six clubs involved who would back this idea. Unfortunately the foreign ownerships have no idea what makes football so great in this country. They are just seeing pound signs.

“What right do Spurs and Arsenal even have to play in a Super League? They’re not exactly setting the Premier League alight this season. And even Manchester United are not currently a Champions League club.

“Do they think they will get away with fielding reserve sides in the Premier League so they can concentrate on a European League? I can’t see it.

“I was in the meeting when Football League clubs discussed the Premier League being formed and we all thought it would never happen.

“Crucially though the FA supported that move. The FA are not supporting this one so I can’t see it going ahead.”
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#10
In fact, the more you read about it, the more it just sounds like history repeating itself.
Quote:During the 1980s major English clubs had begun to transform into business ventures, applying commercial principles to club administration to maximise revenue. Martin Edwards of Manchester United, Irving Scholar of Tottenham Hotspur, and David Dein of Arsenal were among the leaders in this transformation. The commercial imperative led to the top clubs seeking to increase their power and revenue: the clubs in Division One threatened to break away from the Football League, and in so doing they managed to increase their voting power and gain a more favourable financial arrangement, taking a 50% share of all television and sponsorship income in 1986.

They demanded that television companies should pay more for their coverage of football matches,[18] and revenue from television grew in importance. The Football League received £6.3 million for a two-year agreement in 1986, but by 1988, in a deal agreed with ITV, the price rose to £44 million over four years with the leading clubs taking 75% of the cash. According to Scholar who was involved in the negotiations of television deals, each of the First Division clubs received only around £25,000 per year from television rights before 1986, this increased to around £50,000 in the 1986 negotiation, then to £600,000 in 1988.

The 1988 negotiations were conducted under the threat of ten clubs leaving to form a "super league", but they were eventually persuaded to stay, with the top clubs taking the lion's share of the deal. The negotiations also convinced the bigger clubs that in order to receive enough votes, they needed to take the whole of First Division with them instead of a smaller "super league". By the beginning of the 1990s, the big clubs again considered breaking away, especially now that they had to fund the cost of stadium upgrade as proposed by the Taylor Report.[25]

In 1990, the managing director of London Weekend Television (LWT), Greg Dyke, met with the representatives of the "big five" football clubs in England (Manchester United, Liverpool, Tottenham Hotspur, Everton and Arsenal) over a dinner. The meeting was to pave the way for a breakaway from The Football League. Dyke believed that it would be more lucrative for LWT if only the larger clubs in the country were featured on national television and wanted to establish whether the clubs would be interested in a larger share of television rights money.

The five clubs agreed with the suggestion and decided to press ahead with it; however, the league would have no credibility without the backing of The Football Association, and so David Dein of Arsenal held talks to see whether the FA were receptive to the idea. The FA did not enjoy an amicable relationship with the Football League at the time and considered it as a way to weaken the Football League's position.[29] The FA released a report in June 1991, Blueprint for the Future of Football, that supported the plan for Premier League with FA the ultimate authority that would oversee the breakaway league.

At the close of the 1990–1991 season, a proposal was tabled for the establishment of a new league that would bring more money into the game overall. The Founder Members Agreement, signed on 17 July 1991 by the game's top-flight clubs, established the basic principles for setting up the FA Premier League. The newly formed top division was to have commercial independence from The Football Association and the Football League, giving the FA Premier League licence to negotiate its own broadcast and sponsorship agreements.

The argument given at the time was that the extra income would allow English clubs to compete with teams across Europe. Although Dyke played a significant role in the creation of the Premier League, he and ITV (of which LWT was part) lost out in the bidding for broadcast rights: BSkyB won with a bid of £304 million over five years, with the BBC awarded the highlights package broadcast on Match of the Day. The First Division clubs resigned en masse from the Football League in 1992, and on 27 May that year the FA Premier League was formed as a limited company, working out of an office at the Football Association's then headquarters in Lancaster Gate.

The 22 inaugural members of the new Premier League were:

Arsenal
Aston Villa
Blackburn Rovers
Chelsea
Coventry City
Crystal Palace
Everton
Ipswich Town
Leeds United
Liverpool
Manchester City
Manchester United

Middlesbrough
Norwich City
Nottingham Forest
Oldham Athletic
Queens Park Rangers
Sheffield United
Sheffield Wednesday
Southampton
Tottenham Hotspur
Wimbledon[31]
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#11
And...the whole sordid edifice is collapsing spectacularly tonight,

Man City have pulled out of ESL with Chelsea close behind, Barcelona & Atletico Madrid are scrambling to be first out in Spain, LOL

It takes a rare bunch of fools to spend months planning something in secret, announce it & see it fall apart within 48 hours. Absolute shambles. Serves them all right.
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#12
Sky now reporting all 6 English clubs have pulled out.

I wonder what tipped it over the edge.

They must have known that the fans would kick off about it. Was it the managers d'ya think?
Klopp yesterday and Pep today even more so. Strong hints they'd quit if this went ahead.
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#13
Apparently Chelsea & Man C weren't that keen to begin with, but went along with it in case they missed out (pfft!) - once they saw the scale of opposition, they got cold feet. I think it's more likely they saw the Spanish clubs' balance sheets and thought "fuck this for a game of soldiers" LOL

Real & Barca are both skint. Man U owe massive debt to their owners the Glazers - this was a few desperate big clubs who regularly overspend getting the shock of their lives when Covid hit & looking for a way to find additional TV revenue to service their debts. The likes of Chelsea & City had no need to be there - they don't have owners looking for an exit strategy (like the Glazers at Utd or John D Henry at Liverpool). It was just never likely to work.

I think Bayern & PSG having nothing to do with it might have played a part too. They would have been struggling to find 9 credible teams to come in with them to firm up the permanent members going forward,

Like I said above - incredible these supposedly savvy businessmen could spend so long working on something that could fall apart so quickly. Never underestimate the stupidity of people, I suppose!  Big Grin

(20-04-2021, 10:53 PM)ladsnet Wrote: They must have known that the fans would kick off about it. Was it the managers d'ya think?
Klopp yesterday and Pep today even more so. Strong hints they'd quit if this went ahead.

I think it was the scale of opposition across the board yeah. Their own managers & players didn't want it, UEFA & FIFA were talking sanctions such as throwing the clubs out of their own domestic leagues & banning ESL players from playing for their national teams, even governments threatening legislation. It clearly spooked the English clubs at least.
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#14
I think talk of opposition is bullshit. More likely they’re trying to push something through without planning it first (don’t these clubs have lawyers??).

Another problem is that because the clubs tried to launch this so quickly, they hadn’t had proper talks with any of the networks who would broadcast the games. Like, none at all. They would basically have been on the wrong side of a multi-billion lawsuit because the next Champions League contract (already signed off) is due only months away.

So there was probably no inclination for the broadcasters to get involved or they would be on the end of legal action too. Now if they’d done it a year or two ago, they might’ve been on to something.

On the other hand, it’s very worrying when our Prime Minister talks of changing the law to stop this sort of thing happening. That goes completely against the idea of clubs and businesses being able to run themselves.

In fact, it is quite socialist. No government should dare to think of getting involved in regulating football. That’s for the sports authorities.

And talk of fans “having a stake” in the club - like... how much?? Do they own shares?? If not, why not?? If they don’t, tough. Cough up, and buy into your club - then you can actually have a say, and control it. Or get a fans trust to do it.

If you just “contribute” via ticket sales, or tv subs, you are nothing. You’re like mud on the floor. You don’t count. Harsh but true.
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#15
so as all this bullshit ended now in a puff of smoke. Now all the PL teams have pulled all
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#16
It’s been severely badly timed, though. With a CL contract already signed, there was nothing the broadcasters could do.

If they’d done it two years ago...

Or maybe this is just a spoiler for next time.
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