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Sam Smith excluded from gendered categories at 2021 Brit awards
#61
(30-01-2022, 09:20 PM)Heinrich Wrote: Non-binary people are an offshoot of trans people.

But being called something you insist you're not sucks, huh?

What are non binary transitioning into ?
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#62
(30-01-2022, 07:55 PM)Heinrich Wrote:
(30-01-2022, 04:10 PM)Parsifal Wrote:
(30-01-2022, 03:18 PM)Heinrich Wrote: No. A they/them. It's not difficult. We've used the pronoun for over 500 years.

If you're willing to give credibility to a tradition/usage going back 500 years then surely you won't have a problem with those going back to the 1950s/1960s/1970s.  Yes? Big Grin

Depends on if the intent is to dehumanize and demean. Calling someone "it" is just that, and there's no excuse for it.

Nobody used "it" back in the day.  It was he or she.

Times have changed. KK  It's been a few decades since I was friends with a married straight man who was a "transvestite" (as they called themselves back then - "trans-sexual" or "trans" were words not in use yet); since deceased.  He was part-time "Mike" and part-time "Sheila".  (His wife wanted very much that he become full-time "Mike")  Through Sheila I met a lot of her friends (was even invited to a party where I was the only "guy" LOL ).  They only used the she/her pronouns (never "they").  They went to great lengths to not be "read" when in public.  Many had the genital surgery, breast augmentation, hormones, etc. to become a woman (that's how they saw it, "becoming" a woman).  By comparison, the first time I saw a picture of the Jeopardy contestant Amy Schneider I didn't know who she was, but knew instantly that she used to be a man just from the photo.  I guess not being read is no longer a priority.

You haven't been around long enough to realize how things have changed and how much they have changed.  It's ideas that have brought the change, not nature.

(30-01-2022, 09:20 PM)Heinrich Wrote: Non-binary people are an offshoot of trans people.

I believe that is incorrect.  Rather, non-binary is an offshoot of feminism which likes to deny and sweep under the rug the inconvenient truth about the distinction between the male and female natures (physical, mental and emotional).  The parallel is obvious (between feminism and non-binary).  "Non-binary" is a recent construct.

Back to pronouns.
If you know the person's gender then best to use that person's gendered pronouns.  Using "they" for the third-person singular sounds weird and confusing.  I don't care what they did 500 years ago.  I'm talking about my experience.  Clarity and precision always yields better results.
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#63
But you do know Sam Smith's gender, it's non-binary and the pronoun they prefer is they.
It's not that fucking difficult or in need of such long sprawling streams of backwards, rambling bullshit.
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#64
It’s nothing to do with gender, it’s men being feminine and women being butch, and this is the word they use now rather than just saying that. Nobody cares how you dress or act, but you are a man or woman, and you can transition, but you aren’t genderless.
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#65
Oooo. Get her !!
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#66
Indeed Tongue
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#67
Popping in to say yes I was wrong regarding whether non-binary people are trans. Sorry about that.

I won't post further because I've said all this before and to the same exact people. See you next time Elliot Page gets posted in view.
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#68
(31-01-2022, 08:29 PM)Heinrich Wrote: Popping in to say yes I was wrong regarding whether non-binary people are trans. Sorry about that.

I won't post further because I've said all this before and to the same exact people. See you next time Elliot Page gets posted in view.

Elliot page is transgender, again nobody has questioned that, you’ve got your wires crossed again.
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#69
And you'll still be there asking if it's a joke.
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#70
(31-01-2022, 08:47 PM)Heinrich Wrote: And you'll still be there asking if it's a joke.

If what’s a joke ? I posted a transgender actor on the previous board, Elliot Fletcher, unfortunately it was deleted, again you have your wires crossed.
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#71
This topic makes me so glad we have an ignore list, but I wish we could have it programmed such that you don't see posts people have responded or replied to that include people on your ignore list. By this, I mean that I don't mind seeing the reply, but I still don't want to see the comment of someone I ignored. I also feel the need to say, since I don't see anyone else saying it, that a "transvestite" is not a "transexual". A transvestite is a cross dresser, someone who gets a physical or emotional need fulfilled from wearing clothing or other things which traditionally correspond to the "opposite" gender. That's not what a transexual is at all.
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#72
(31-01-2022, 09:38 PM)Jwb52z Wrote: This topic makes me so glad we have an ignore list, but I wish we could have it programmed such that you don't see posts people have responded or replied to that include people on your ignore list.  By this, I mean that I don't mind seeing the reply, but I still don't want to see the comment of someone I ignored.  I also feel the need to say, since I don't see anyone else saying it, that a "transvestite" is not a "transexual".  A transvestite is a cross dresser, someone who gets a physical or emotional need fulfilled from wearing clothing or other things which traditionally correspond to the "opposite" gender.  That's not what a transexual is at all.

so me or Heinrich ?
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#73
Oh my dear sweet god. Ry, you are absolutely right. This whole fucking time I've been confusing you with the dearly departed JCarter. I apologize from the bottom of my heart for both my last several replies and general hostility towards you. Jesus Christ.
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#74
(01-02-2022, 07:13 AM)Heinrich Wrote: Oh my dear sweet god. Ry, you are absolutely right. This whole fucking time I've been confusing you with the dearly departed JCarter. I apologize from the bottom of my heart for both my last several replies and general hostility towards you. Jesus Christ.

I knew that’s who you were getting at. Apology accepted.
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#75
(31-01-2022, 09:38 PM)Jwb52z Wrote: I also feel the need to say, since I don't see anyone else saying it, that a "transvestite" is not a "transexual".  A transvestite is a cross dresser, someone who gets a physical or emotional need fulfilled from wearing clothing or other things which traditionally correspond to the "opposite" gender.  That's not what a transexual is at all.

In the period of time that I was referring to in my post (a few decades ago) the term "transsexual" did not exist.  Many cross-dressing transvestites went the step further and went "full-time" and had all the necessary surgeries and hormones to "become a woman" after which they still used the term "transvestite".  You see here that man/woman was viewed at the physical level, not the mental level.  You needed surgery to change from a man to a woman.  Today the whole concept is viewed entirely differently, i.e. of gender-conforming surgery rather than surgery to change genders.

I remember when the term "transsexual" came into vogue, but don't remember when that was, but it was later than when I was friends with that group.

Further, back then, you couldn't have the surgeries (in NYS?) until you were "full-time" for a year (or two?) and cleared by a psychologist/psychiatrist.  It was quite strict back then.  I was once invited to one of the group sessions for friends and family which was run by a psychologist.  I'm no longer in touch with that world, but suspect that things are much more relaxed now.

I'm by no means an authority on how it was back then, but what I describe is what I encountered and experienced.
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#76
(01-02-2022, 05:40 PM)RyCamp88 Wrote:
(01-02-2022, 07:13 AM)Heinrich Wrote: Oh my dear sweet god. Ry, you are absolutely right. This whole fucking time I've been confusing you with the dearly departed JCarter. I apologize from the bottom of my heart for both my last several replies and general hostility towards you. Jesus Christ.

I knew that’s who you were getting at. Apology accepted.

I feel like such a dumbass. Thank you for accepting.
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#77
By coincidence (of sorts) the BBC have an interesting article today about some of the LGBT history in the UK including transgender. It also features working class men who (whilst married) regularly had sex with other men in the fields and at work - seems it was known and tolerated in those days! You can find it HERE

And, for much amusement it’s quotes a history professor who is aptly named - Professor Cocks  Tongue
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#78
(01-02-2022, 06:20 PM)Parsifal Wrote:
(31-01-2022, 09:38 PM)Jwb52z Wrote: I also feel the need to say, since I don't see anyone else saying it, that a "transvestite" is not a "transexual".  A transvestite is a cross dresser, someone who gets a physical or emotional need fulfilled from wearing clothing or other things which traditionally correspond to the "opposite" gender.  That's not what a transexual is at all.

In the period of time that I was referring to in my post (a few decades ago) the term "transsexual" did not exist.  Many cross-dressing transvestites went the step further and went "full-time" and had all the necessary surgeries and hormones to "become a woman" after which they still used the term "transvestite".  You see here that man/woman was viewed at the physical level, not the mental level.  You needed surgery to change from a man to a woman.  Today the whole concept is viewed entirely differently, i.e. of gender-conforming surgery rather than surgery to change genders.

I remember when the term "transsexual" came into vogue, but don't remember when that was, but it was later than when I was friends with that group.

Further, back then, you couldn't have the surgeries (in NYS?) until you were "full-time" for a year (or two?) and cleared by a psychologist/psychiatrist.  It was quite strict back then.  I was once invited to one of the group sessions for friends and family which was run by a psychologist.  I'm no longer in touch with that world, but suspect that things are much more relaxed now.

I'm by no means an authority on how it was back then, but what I describe is what I encountered and experienced.

Oh, you're perfectly right that things were different decades ago.  Even when I was a child in the 80s, transvestite was the only word you usually ever heard unless you were in the UK or Europe and you might have heard "stringvestite", but that's a whole other conversation.
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#79
(28-01-2022, 01:49 AM)Heinrich Wrote:
(27-01-2022, 11:30 PM)spenni1 Wrote: non binary ? dont get it ur either a man or a woman thats how u were born ?

Plenty of cultures have had third or more genders throughout history. Maybe look up the terminology before you post a shitty take about it. Gender is an obsolete construct and English is finally starting to catch up. , eithere way thats fact how u are born , and it wasnt a shitty take on it mush thats how i see it no disrespect .

no disrespect , but that how i see it , but how can u say say ur not a male wen ur born with a penis ?? , but if ur trapped in a womans boby then have the op i get that , but not sam smith sayin that he doesnt class himself as male or female ?
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#80
(28-01-2022, 01:49 AM)Heinrich Wrote: Plenty of cultures have had third or more genders throughout history.

I don't know which cultures you're referring to, but when choosing other cultures as examples to emulate be careful which ones you choose.  I recommend choosing those whose civilized whole you admire through and through and not, for example, some authoritarian, racist culture that happens to have a single quality that you favor.  It's the whole that matters first, then look at the details.
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