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Keir Starmer
what do we think?
#1
I'm guessing there are a few Labour supporters on FMF. I'll put my hand up as a card-carrying member of the Labour party for many years now, was never a "Corbynista", but quite liked him & his policies, & was a bit infuriated with how the centrists in the party continually made life difficult for him, despite his winning two leadership elections,

As for Starmer...Early days still, but I'm finding his fear of doing/saying the wrong thing a little bit tiresome to be honest. Johnson is a shambles, but Starmer's policy of non-opposition - voting with the government or abstaining - means he struggles to call him on it. We all know Starmer can run rings around Johnson - any half-competent leader could - but he leaves himself open to accusations of carping from the sidelines without making any constructive proposals,

The feeling I get is that there's an obsession with the polls. Yes, Labour are ahead, but they were ahead for most of the last parliament too & we all know how THAT ended! There's potentially 4 years to go to an election, surely Labour are going need to stand for something soon. I'm just not sure what it's going to be...
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#2
Win's scored now won't make any difference to an election 4 years in the future and the government majority is so big it's not like they could score a real change by persuading a few waivering MP's to vote against the gov so why waste time and goodwill now when in 18 months time it will be much more powerful and will come with the extra ability to say "the government cocked it all up, we didn't spend every day trying to put them off, they did it all by themselves" which is a powerful message going into elections. Opposition parties loose votes if people perceive them as being obstructive or pennickety for no good reason
[+] 1 user Likes chabang's post
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#3
I take that point, but on the other hand it'll be just as easy in 18 months time for the government to say, well Labour backed everything we did. It feels a bit like Starmer wants it both ways - he won't oppose the government, but he wants to hold them to account when their policies fail,

Maybe he will pull back the middle ground, but if he carries on like this he might lose traditional Labour supporters like me. There's nothing wrong with an opposition actually opposing,
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#4
I think he is a difficult position. Doris constantly harps on about Labour flip flopping when it comes to supporting the Government or pointing out that Starmer has nothing better to suggest to fix the problems he does highlight.

I saw the logic of Starmer backing the Government when it came to the first lockdown and measures the Tories came up with to try and curb the spread. It wasn't the time for political point scoring when the country faced something so dangerous.

With the number of U-turns and mess ups the Government is responsible for now, you have to attack their record. You have members of the Cabinet openly defying measures Joe Public are legally required to follow. You have the Government awarding massive contracts to companies ill equiped for the task of completing the contract. Ministers promising targets and openly fudging the data to say they met their them.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not the job of the Opposition to provide the Government with solutions to the problems they were elected to solve.

One day someone will get Johnson to actually answer a question in Parliament without allowing him to waffle with vague references.
[+] 1 user Likes edu29d's post
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#5
You're right, it's not the job of the opposition to provide solutions, but they should be opposing where necessary AND setting out an alternative,

My biggest complaint was abstaining on the Overseas Operations Bill. The Tories claim it won't lead to torture & criminal behaviour because the Human Rights Act won't allow it, but that ignores the utter disregard they hold that act in. Starmer should have allowed his MPs to oppose it instead of whipping them to abstain. I know the government would have made a play on Labour not supporting "our boys", but as a Labour party member, I'm not comfortable supporting a party that doesn't stand up for basic human rights,

Like I say, it's early days for Starmer, but he can't continue being so passive or I fear it will damage him long-term,
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#6
(13-10-2020, 01:48 PM)edu29d Wrote: I think he is a difficult position. Doris constantly harps on about Labour flip flopping when it comes  to supporting the Government or pointing out that Starmer has nothing better to suggest to fix the problems he does highlight.

I saw the logic of Starmer backing the Government when it came to the first lockdown and measures the Tories came up with to try and curb the spread. It wasn't the time for political point scoring when the country faced something so dangerous.

With the number of U-turns and mess ups the Government is responsible for now, you have to attack their record.  You have members of the Cabinet openly defying measures Joe Public are legally required to follow. You have the Government awarding massive contracts to companies ill equiped for the task of completing the contract. Ministers promising targets and openly fudging the data to say they met their them.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not the job of the Opposition to provide the Government with solutions to the problems they were elected to solve.

One day someone will get Johnson to actually answer a question in Parliament without allowing him to waffle with vague references.

I keep seeing this statement. Why isn't it his job? He's effectively on a three year job interview until the next election. If he was constantly providing solutions, it would be cemented in my head that he knew what he was doing and was a sure vote. All I see currently is a blowhard and I know nothing of what he stands for. No substance or backbone IMO.
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#7
Its a tricky one as he's supposed to oppose the govt, as well as support getting through the National Crisis.

I see we've had a bit of a U-turn yesterday though and he's now calling for a National Lockdown.
I do agree with this but I worry he's now being buffeted by media opinion too much.
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#8
I feel that Starmer's call for a lockdown may be a calculated move. That clueless oaf Johnson will bluster and waffle about it for a couple of weeks by which time the situation will be so bad he will be forced to lockdown anyway. Then Starmer can say Boris is following Labour.
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#9
It is a calculated move. Pure politicking.
Along with the Welsh lockdown, and Sturgeon’s “We’re gonna have 5 Tiers, so better than England, but we won’t use 2 of them”.

This week saw the launch of Burnham’s bid to be the next leader, but back to Sir Keir..... when was the last time, a Knight of the Realm, as leader of the Labour Party, been elected to be Prime Minister, by those outside of the Metropolitan centric? ie: Northern working class voters?

It’s more likely that Sir Kier will lay the groundwork, in order than someone like Andy Burnham ride in and take over the reins, much like John Smith did for Call Me Tony.

But Northern voters won’t forget that Burnham is tarnished with the Mid Staffs hospital deaths scandal, when he was health secretary all those years ago.
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#10
My mum thinks he's fit, that's the level of political discourse we have when I'm at home.
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#11
(24-10-2020, 08:53 PM)veeeight Wrote: It is a calculated move. Pure politicking.
Along with the Welsh lockdown, and Sturgeon’s “We’re gonna have 5 Tiers, so better than England, but we won’t use 2 of them”.

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I promise, she doesn't care what's going on in England because she thinks it's being run by an incompetent buffoon. In response to the original question; Starmer is quite unthrilling but all you're really looking for at the moment is competent.
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